Bit-Perfect Audio Playback

OSS specific Linux discussion (x86/amd64)

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igorzwx
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Re: Bit-Perfect Audio Playback

Postby igorzwx » Fri May 23, 2014 2:34 pm

Since this discussion is becoming extremely confusing, it might be reasonable to summarize some "obvious facts", objective and subjective ones.

1. OSS4 was designed for semi-deaf Linux users (the default settings of OSS4 speak for themselves).

2. ossplay was designed as a simple tool for basic testing. It was not designed for "bit-perfect" playback of HiRes FLACs. It seems to be extremely buggy. It is not likely to be improved simply because nobody is using it on a regular basis.

3. Both Deadbeef and Audacious were designed for audiophiles, or, perhaps, more exactly, "semi-deaf audiophiles".

4. Audacious has a lossy format converter inside. It cannot be disabled, because Audacious is fundamentally wrong by design.

5. Deadbeef has a kind of lossy format converter inside, which can be disabled (Sergey Petrov did this).

6. Petrov's plugin (for Deadbeef) was created in an effort to make life easier (for audiophiles).

7. It should not be a big problem to add "exclusive mode" to the "open-source" OSS4 plugin for Deadbeef. It might be borrowed from the source code of "ossplay" (option -R).

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Re: Bit-Perfect Audio Playback

Postby nuc » Fri May 23, 2014 2:37 pm

Thanks for summarizing, it's indeed complex.
igorzwx wrote:4. Audacious has a lossy format converter inside. It cannot be disabled, because Audacious is fundamentally wrong by design.

Audacious also has "Exclusive mode" (wihtout needing petrov's plugin).
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igorzwx
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Re: Bit-Perfect Audio Playback

Postby igorzwx » Fri May 23, 2014 3:00 pm

nuc wrote:Thanks for summarizing, it's indeed complex.
igorzwx wrote:4. Audacious has a lossy format converter inside. It cannot be disabled, because Audacious is fundamentally wrong by design.

Audacious also has "Exclusive mode" (wihtout needing petrov's plugin).


To be precise, the "exclusive mode" of Audacious is not the same as the "exclusive mode" of Petrov's plugin.
Michal decided to split Petrov's "exclusive mode" into two different options.

shoober420
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Re: Bit-Perfect Audio Playback

Postby shoober420 » Sat May 24, 2014 5:59 am

Igor, I must disagree with your points.

1. OSS4 was designed to be working out of the box without any tweaks. It wasn't designed for "semi-deaf" users. The default settings are set up so no tweaking needs to be made for it to function properly. Not everyone is us who knows how to disable all these things. If cooking mode was disabled by default, imagine all the new threads that would spawn from people saying "I have no sound in my program". If it wasn't for cooking mode, I couldn't play CS1.6 with sound, since the highest frequency it supports is 22KHz. It has its purpose. Also, the mixer must be enabled for ALSA emulation to work, at least in some applications. If these two options were disabled by default for the sake of bit-perfect audio playback in audio players, there would be alot of other applications that would produce no sound at all.

2. Could you explain why you think ossplay is buggy? The program is so simple, that it would be hard for a bug to exist. Even if there was a bug, I doubt it would effect anything, since the program is so small.

Nobody wants to use it because its all command line driven. If someone made a GUI for it, it would definitely gain some attention in the OSS community. Especially audiophiles who don't want to have to download random plugins to disable options and converters that shouldn't exists in the program to begin with.

3-4. If you think about it, if you compare Deadbeef and ossplay, Deadbeef is just ossplay with a bunch of bloat. It has support for useless DSPs and plugins, album art viewer, metadata viewer, visualisation, and a strong fasination of trying to look like Foobar2000.

If you use Deadbeef with the Petrov plugin, its no different then using ossplay with the -R command line parameter. I would say OSSPlay might have an edge, since it seems to be built into OSS4.

5-7. With OSSPlay, I don't need to think about any of these things, since OSSPlay can disable cooked mode without the need of a plugin. I also doubt that the coders put a secret resampler or converter in the program, because its so small.
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igorzwx
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Re: Bit-Perfect Audio Playback

Postby igorzwx » Sat May 24, 2014 8:23 am

shoober420 wrote: With OSSPlay, I don't need to think about any of these things, since OSSPlay can disable cooked mode without the need of a plugin. I also doubt that the coders put a secret resampler or converter in the program, because its so small.


If you are already content with your "bit-perfect" playback, this topic might be closed.

If you want to share your experience of "belief and doubt", you may post it to the "General Discussion" sub-forum. To avoid confusion, it might be reasonable to separate "technical information" from "theological speculations".

shoober420
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Re: Bit-Perfect Audio Playback

Postby shoober420 » Sat May 24, 2014 9:46 am

igorzwx wrote:If you want to share your experience of "belief and doubt", you may post it to the "General Discussion" sub-forum. To avoid confusion, it might be reasonable to separate "technical information" from "theological speculations".


Theological? Lets not bring God into this. You have stated that you have read threw source code to verify the existance of secret resamplers and converters in other audio players. Why don't you look threw the source code of OSSPlay to see if there is one so you can prove me wrong, instead of criticize why I think OSSPlay wouldn't contain any secret resamplers and converters?

As it stands now, I can see no difference between using OSSPlay with the -R command line parameter and using Deadbeef with Petrov's plugin. I also don't think you can either.
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igorzwx
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Re: Bit-Perfect Audio Playback

Postby igorzwx » Sat May 24, 2014 11:18 am

shoober420 wrote:Why don't you look threw the source code of OSSPlay to see if there is one so you can prove me wrong, instead of criticize why I think OSSPlay wouldn't contain any secret resamplers and converters?


This seems to mean: "Could you please study the source code of ossplay?" Right?

cesium claimed that ossplay does not contain any resamplers, or converters. If you have questions about ossplay or "bug reports", you may better contact him. He seems to be an author (or co-author) of this magic code.

shoober420
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Re: Bit-Perfect Audio Playback

Postby shoober420 » Sat May 24, 2014 11:49 am

igorzwx wrote:This seems to mean: "Could you please study the source code of ossplay?" Right?


I figured you already have since you already claimed that OSSPlay contained bugs. That's a very bold statement. If you can't prove that OSSPlay has bugs then I wouldn't go around saying it does.
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igorzwx
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Re: Bit-Perfect Audio Playback

Postby igorzwx » Sat May 24, 2014 12:08 pm

shoober420 wrote:I figured you already have since you already claimed that OSSPlay contained bugs. That's a very bold statement. If you can't prove that OSSPlay has bugs then I wouldn't go around saying it does.


Are you going to practice that same method of interrogation? Or you may try another method of obtaining "knowledge"?

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Re: Bit-Perfect Audio Playback

Postby nuc » Sat May 24, 2014 12:35 pm

shoober420 wrote:I figured you already have since you already claimed that OSSPlay contained bugs. That's a very bold statement. If you can't prove that OSSPlay has bugs then I wouldn't go around saying it does.

igorzwx wrote:Are you going to practice that same method of interrogation? Or you may try another method of obtaining "knowledge"?

Come on now, this disscussion begins to be pointless. If both of you haven't any got substancial inforamtion to share anymore please stop this discussion, or this topic will indeed be closed.
@shoober420 you stated your opinion, Igor stated his and mentioned whom you should ask for further information, there's no point in driving the discussion further.

Anything aside from kindergarten is still welcome in this thread.
Thanks.

--------------------------------------

EDIT: Closed.
Last edited by nuc on Sun May 25, 2014 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Closing.
Check out my effort on revamping the opensound website => github.com/Nuc1eoN/4Front-Tech-Website
Any feedback greatly appreciated =)


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