oss and alsa simultaneouly

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igorzwx
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Re: oss and alsa simultaneouly

Postby igorzwx » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:42 pm

hash wrote:OSS Emulation isn't going to work with recording simply because it wasn't designed to, through my attempts of getting Skype/TS3 to work with OSSv4, I've come around the documentation along side with blog post which in essence explained exactly that, no recording at all there are simply nothing there to work.
It wasn't post about OSS in any form, main problem is module dsnoop which should work in the same way as dmix but it isn't, it's plainly not developed to work the way we need.


OSS Emulation did work with recording on my old computers (AC'97 codecs) with ALSA (as I remember).
My very old Ubuntu (with ALSA) had a standard Gnome2 ALSA-mixer applet, and that ALSA-mixer applet had two ALSA mixers inside:
a kind pseudo "OSS Mixer" (with /dev/dsp playback and recording) and a sort of "true ALSA mixer", and the both worked without problems.
The ALSA modules for that pseudo "OSS Mixer" are likely to be snd_mixer_oss and snd_pcm_oss.

Moreover, the very old Audacity did not have ALSA support at all, but it worked well with OSS emulation (both playback and recording).

There was a topic on this forum (some years ago) about audio recording with Adobe Flash with OSS4 and ALSA emulation.
There was a magic patch, and it worked.
A sort of video/audio conferencing with Adobe Flash.
I did try it with several Adobe apps, and it worked.

hash
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Re: oss and alsa simultaneouly

Postby hash » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:46 pm

No I meant that the application of that will not work for us.
The playback works because dmix support both "real" and complex sources where dsnoop support only "real", you can directly add

Code: Select all

type oss
device /dev/dsp
To palyback but we can't do the same for record, the only "semi working" variant is

Code: Select all

type plug
slave { pcm "oss" }
But that way you inevitably will need to use dsnoop but it do not support that form only "real" sources are supported.

igorzwx
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Re: oss and alsa simultaneouly

Postby igorzwx » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:16 pm

hash wrote:No I meant that the application of that will not work for us.
The playback works because dmix support both "real" and complex sources where dsnoop support only "real", you can directly add

Code: Select all

type oss
device /dev/dsp
To palyback but we can't do the same for record, the only "semi working" variant is

Code: Select all

type plug
slave { pcm "oss" }
But that way you inevitably will need to use dsnoop but it do not support that form only "real" sources are supported.


I cannot understand all this ALSA-speak at all (that is why, perhaps, I tend to use OSS4).

However, the fact is that recording did work with Adobe Flash plugin with OSS4 + ALSA emulation + "magic patch".
There is a topic on this forum with that "magic patch", etc.

It is not easy to find, but that "magic patch" is here: _http://www.opensound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4306#p17031
It did work with Adobe Flash and some other apps.

by cesium » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:10 pm
ALSA's oss plugin has a bug in input handling.
Try this patch to alsa-plugins: _http://www.opensound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4306#p17031


(From my subjective point of view) instead of fixing the old bug, they simply produce a "real" mythological gibberish about "mysterious dsnoop" (and the like) in order to fool naive users.

hash
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Re: oss and alsa simultaneouly

Postby hash » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:53 pm

I'll look at that when I'll have more time, for now I'm siting on a suitcases to get on a plain, so no more time to "dilli-dally".

Xylemon
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Re: oss and alsa simultaneouly

Postby Xylemon » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:56 am

igorzwx wrote:
hash wrote:No I meant that the application of that will not work for us.
The playback works because dmix support both "real" and complex sources where dsnoop support only "real", you can directly add

Code: Select all

type oss
device /dev/dsp
To palyback but we can't do the same for record, the only "semi working" variant is

Code: Select all

type plug
slave { pcm "oss" }
But that way you inevitably will need to use dsnoop but it do not support that form only "real" sources are supported.


I cannot understand all this ALSA-speak at all (that is why, perhaps, I tend to use OSS4).

However, the fact is that recording did work with Adobe Flash plugin with OSS4 + ALSA emulation + "magic patch".
There is a topic on this forum with that "magic patch", etc.

It is not easy to find, but that "magic patch" is here: _http://www.opensound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4306#p17031
It did work with Adobe Flash and some other apps.

by cesium » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:10 pm
ALSA's oss plugin has a bug in input handling.
Try this patch to alsa-plugins: _http://www.opensound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4306#p17031


(From my subjective point of view) instead of fixing the old bug, they simply produce a "real" mythological gibberish about "mysterious dsnoop" (and the like) in order to fool naive users.


I had a friend not too long ago try to fix up this patch, and while we did get a new alsa-libs compiled with the patch, stuff like TS3 or anything else regarding ALSA emulation input still failed sadly. Maybe someone will be able to find out how to actually get this working. I mean hey, ALSA emulation works far better than aoss ever did for me when I used ALSA.

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Re: oss and alsa simultaneouly

Postby ossuserr » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:41 pm

Guys, maybe you can generalize in a kind of a manual how to swtich off ALSA and switch on OSS for one soundcard and do vice versa for the second soundcard.
And one more issue arises concerning jackd. We all know that jack-audio-connection-kit-2 works only with alsa. Is there a way to route the sound stream from jackd configured to use the alsa card to the soundcard using OSS4? We define the alsa card in qjackctl or cadence as output device. So i can't even imagine how we can trick the jackd to send the stream to the OSS card instead. Maybe we can employ some alsa emulation again and put OSS card in qjackctl or cadence properties jackd tab...

igorzwx
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Re: oss and alsa simultaneouly

Postby igorzwx » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:06 am

ossuserr wrote:Guys, maybe you can generalize in a kind of a manual how to swtich off ALSA and switch on OSS for one soundcard and do vice versa for the second soundcard.


The manual was already written by hash (you may find it in this thread).

If you have a MIDI keyboard, you may try something like this:
_http://www.opensound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5793#p21188

You do not need to recompile ALSA, of course. The unwanted ALSA modules can be blacklisted, or deleted manually.

NOTE: You may want to save a copy of all ALSA modules and the scripts (which you are going to modify).

To disable the unwanted OSS4 modules, you can simply remove some lines in /usr/lib/oss/etc/installed_drivers

Code: Select all

$ cat /usr/lib/oss/etc/installed_drivers
oss_hdaudio #Intel High Definition Audio (PPT)
oss_usb #Generic USB audio/MIDI device (BETA)


To disable the removal of ALSA modules in the soundon script, you may try a simple hack:

[the original soundon script]:

Code: Select all

if test -d /proc/asound || grep -q '^ *14 ' < /proc/devices
then
   if ! sh $OSSLIBDIR/scripts/remove_drv.sh>> $LOG
   then
      echo Failed to disable conflicting sound drivers >> $LOG
      echo Failed to disable conflicting sound drivers
      echo Reboot and try running soundon again
      echo
      echo Also check that you have not compiled sound support statically
      echo into the kernel.
      exit 50
   fi
fi


[modified soundon script]:

Code: Select all

if test -d /proc/asound || grep -q '^ *14 ' < /proc/devices
then
#   if ! sh $OSSLIBDIR/scripts/remove_drv.sh>> $LOG
#   then
#      echo Failed to disable conflicting sound drivers >> $LOG
#      echo Failed to disable conflicting sound drivers
#      echo Reboot and try running soundon again
#      echo
#      echo Also check that you have not compiled sound support statically
#      echo into the kernel.
#      exit 50
#   fi
   lsmod | grep snd
fi

ossuserr
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Re: oss and alsa simultaneouly

Postby ossuserr » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:11 am

Someone complained here that adobe flash is not usable with OSS. Let me disclose some facts about that adobe freemason corporation. It's well-known for purchasing promising projects and turning them into spyware. Initially, photoshop was developed by two brothers-programmists who were independent of any companies. Adobe bought their project and now put malware to your pc during its installation. Flash technology was developed by Macromedia company. Adobe bought that flash technology and put malware into it again. But the most fancy thing is that that devlish adobe started to promote pdf format specifically designed to function as malware. Under the reason of some licensing bullshit connected with the rights to that ugly acrobat reader adobe installs malware right into the MASTER BOOT RECORD of your hard disk! If you try to reinstall grub loader into your master boot record you will get a notice that some sector, usually 10 or 32, is occupied by adobe's spyware program FlexNet. This horrible thing is covered here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1661254 It helped me to remove FlexNet rot. Instead of watching flash, use http5, or use plugins or sites to convers flash into mp4 and download to your computer for watching. Completely ignore adobe and anyone associated with it.

ossuserr
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Re: oss and alsa simultaneouly

Postby ossuserr » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:44 am

Igor, did you try to test if jack-audio-connection-kit2 works with alsa emulation on OSS? Even if i manage to activate midi input for OSS4 using alsa module, i am still attached to jackd thing. Since jackd = asio .i.e. interface for connecting IO of programs what was the point to create that jackd? Why not just make asio support on linux and run windows staff via wine? Native linux programs could get asio support to connect everything into a single chain.

Also you mentioned some hardware mixing with lynx2 card. Can you tell more details about hardware mixing? Can it substitute jackd? I use score-writing program and feed the staves as channels to linuxsampler into which soundfonts are loaded and to vsts loaded via dssi-vst application. I start all audio programs at once via non-session-manager. After linuxsampler and vsts all streams go to non-mixer for mixing and from non-mixer to system:playback. Of course all the connection are made within jackd. So i wonder how i make those connections via hardware mixing. Does lynx2 provide some software interface for connecting programs to each other?

igorzwx
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Re: oss and alsa simultaneouly

Postby igorzwx » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:13 pm

ossuserr wrote: Someone complained here that adobe flash is not usable with OSS. Let me disclose some facts about that adobe freemason corporation...


Adobe Flash is usable with OSS4. The manual is here:
_http://www.4front-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Configuring_Applications_for_OSSv4#Adobe_Flash
See also: _http://www.4front-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Configuring_Applications_for_OSSv4#wine

ossuserr wrote: did you try to test if jack-audio-connection-kit2 works with alsa emulation on OSS?


ALSA emulation does not make much sense with jackd, because this crappy emulation produces latency (time delay).

ossuserr wrote:Also you mentioned some hardware mixing with lynx2 card. Can you tell more details about hardware mixing? Can it substitute jackd?


To find a substitute for a "sofware crap", you may need to try another crap. Right?
I do not think that LynxTWO is a sort of crap, it is a "professional soundcard"
_http://manuals.opensound.com/usersguide/lynxtwo.html
_http://manuals.opensound.com/devlists/lynxtwo.html

On the other hand, jackd seems to be such a unique crap, that it might be difficult to find another crap, which might be utilized a substitute for it.

I do not have any LynxTWO soundcard. It is said to have "powerful hardware mixing":

LynxTWO has set the standard for signal purity, versatile synchronization, powerful hardware mixing, and extensibility to support a variety of multichannel formats including ADAT and multiple AES/EBU or SPDIF. _http://www.lynxstudio.com/product_detail.asp?i=12


The presence of a hardware mixer would allow the sound device to operate on its own accord therefore not requiring an additional software mixer.
_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_mixing


In short, jackd is a "software mixer", it is a crappy substitute for "hardware mixers".

Similarly, conspiracy theories (about freemasons and the like), might be used as a substitute for technical knowledge.
However, technical knowledge can hardly be used as a substitute for conspiracy theories, simply because it lacks the most important features of conspiracy theories.
For example, it cannot explain "everything", because it is a technical knowledge.
Conspiracy theories can explain "everything", because they are not a technical knowledge.
A "religious knowledge" can be used as a substitute for conspiracy theories, it is also able to explain everything.

LinxTWO User Manuals:
_http://www.lynxstudio.com/support_manuals.asp

On-board Digital Mixer
Channel Capacity: 32 input channels, 16 sub outputs
Resolution / Dither: 32-bit / TPDF, Shaped TPDF, or RPDF
Monitor Mixing: Any input to multiple outputs
Metering: Peak levels to -114 dB on all inputs and outputs
LynxTWO Mixer App – Provides complete control of digital mixer and all hardware settings.
[LynxTWO User Manual _http://www.lynxstudio.com/nav/getFile.asp?i=10&t=productfile ]


Notice that the "On-board Digital Mixer" of LynxTwo is a "hardware digital mixer" (digital mixing console).

In professional audio, a digital mixing console (DMC) is an electronic device used to combine, route, and change the dynamics, equalization and other properties of digital audio samples.
_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_mixing_console


You may get a better help on LynxTwo forum: _http://www.lynxstudio.com/forum/default.asp

ossuserr
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Re: oss and alsa simultaneouly

Postby ossuserr » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:02 pm

You are wrong. Both technical and non-technical knowledge do not explain everything. On the other hand an all-round-developed person must have not only technical knowledge. Since social world is more irrational than rational freemasons and their masters not simply can exist but do exist. And the corresponding literature is available for reading for those who are interested.
As for jackd, even if it's a crap it's a good means to save money from the greedy capitalists and corporations who want to sell you expensive hardware which production cost is about the same as of 4 of 5 dollar audio cards. You will invest big money into that metal but capitalists will promote the chosen ones like shitty Beatles for example the music for whom was written by the austrian fascist Theordor Adorno. Naive idiots think that those 4 well-dressed drug-takers were composing that shit.
I will stick to jackd so far because i am sure that 16 or 24 channels of mixing supported by the lynx card is not enough but buying several lynx two cards is out of the question because not economically substantiated. A good thing would be to improve jackd and alsa, to change resamplers, introduce float point, etc. But using cpus instead of that hardware mixing would be much cheaper with the same or better quality.

igorzwx
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Re: oss and alsa simultaneouly

Postby igorzwx » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:18 am

ossuserr wrote:You are wrong. Both technical and non-technical knowledge do not explain everything...
Since social world is more irrational than rational freemasons and their masters not simply can exist but do exist.


If you do not know how to explain something, it does not mean that your theory of "freemasons" cannot explain everything.
If you do not know an explanation, you may try to think.
If it does not help, one may presume that those "evil freemasons" can make people "mentally confused" (or even stupid) through the help of "conspiracy theories about freemasons".
This might be a logical conclusion from your own theory.
To test this assumption, you may try to read OSS4 documentation instead of "conspiracy theories".

ossuserr
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Re: oss and alsa simultaneouly

Postby ossuserr » Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:52 am

In Japanese universities Japanese students study such books as "The international jew" by Henry Ford, "Desionization" by Yemelianov and one more book which name i can't remember. Are all Japanese students, professors and rulers mad? Then how would you explain high level of technical knowledge of the Japanese nation?
Also your 'hardware mixing' is a marketing trick, simply because the CPU of your PC is a hardware too which makes the same job as PUs of that lynx2. At the same time lynx2 uses the firmware which is comparable to PC's software like jackd. 10 years ago video studios had to buy special expansion pci cards providing video buffer to speed up work with video because CPUs at that time were not so powerful as now. But today there is no need in those cards because multicore CPUs handle video normally. The same thing concerns lynx2. Today, it's not required... IT's wasted money. Instead i would buy some good used firewire card at 200-300$ with a best DAC within this range. Only jackd and alsa must be improved to include better resamplers. I hope it's just the matter of time. Sound quality of oss+expensive soundcards over alsa+jack is not so crucial to invest money into it. Instead i would invest into good monitors with a large frequency response range.

igorzwx
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Re: oss and alsa simultaneouly

Postby igorzwx » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:48 pm

ossuserr wrote:your 'hardware mixing' is a marketing trick, simply because the CPU of your PC is a hardware too which makes the same job as PUs of that lynx2. At the same time lynx2 uses the firmware which is comparable to PC's software like jackd. 10 years ago video studios had to buy special expansion pci cards providing video buffer to speed up work with video because CPUs at that time were not so powerful as now. But today there is no need in those cards because multicore CPUs handle video normally. The same thing concerns lynx2. Today, it's not required... IT's wasted money. Instead i would buy some good used firewire card at 200-300$ with a best DAC within this range. Only jackd and alsa must be improved to include better resamplers. I hope it's just the matter of time. Sound quality of oss+expensive soundcards over alsa+jack is not so crucial to invest money into it. Instead i would invest into good monitors with a large frequency response range.


This sort of argumentation might be found in the ancient fable "The Fox and the Grapes"
_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes

For some strange reason, Morten Lindberg is still using very expensive PYRAMIX instead of "alsa+jack"
_http://www.opensound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4423
_http://www.merging.com/news/use-cases/morten-linderg-2l-norway
Perhaps, you may try to explain him how to record music with ALSA.

ossuserr wrote:In Japanese universities Japanese students study such books as "The international jew" by Henry Ford, "Desionization" by Yemelianov and one more book which name i can't remember. Are all Japanese students, professors and rulers mad? Then how would you explain high level of technical knowledge of the Japanese nation?


If I understood you correctly, your theory suggests that there are "evil freemasons", and the true knowledge about "evil freemasons" is available in the net for free. However, the "evil freemasons" do not care about this.

A logical conclusion from your theory might be that the conspiracy theories about "evil freemasons" are absolutely harmless to the "evil freemasons", because those theories are missing something essential. It might be obvious that those conspiracy theories about "evil freemasons" were somehow "corrected" by the "evil freemasons" in order to fool naive people.

If Japanese students do study such conspiracy theories, it may not contradict the fact that the Japanese economy has experienced seemingly endless stagnation since the 1980s. The naive students may believe that they possess the true knowledge, but they may not afford LynxTwo, because this sort of "true knowledge" does not help to solve practical problems.
However, they do need conspiracy theories, because such theories provide an explanation of "economic problems", just like ancient religions provided explanations of natural phenomena, economic troubles, and of everything else.

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Re: oss and alsa simultaneouly

Postby nuc » Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:11 pm

@ossuser, @igorzwx: Please stop debates about conspiracy theories on this forum. Independently if those "theories" are true or not, I do not wish those debates here to be taken place.
This forum may not be very active, but is still probably the last sane place for oss-related discussion. I mean to keep it that way - and you should also if you wish this place too be taken serioulsy by new users. If you feel urged to continue this discussion, search the internet for appropriate forums... I guess there's plenty those places where you can waste your time.

But here, try to actually provide productive info. Don't think in problems, but in solutions. Thanks.
Check out my effort on revamping the opensound website => github.com/Nuc1eoN/4Front-Tech-Website
Any feedback greatly appreciated =)


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