Why OSS sound quality is superior vs ALSA

OSS specific Linux discussion (x86/amd64)

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ossuserr
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Why OSS sound quality is superior vs ALSA

Postby ossuserr » Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:49 pm

Some time ago i wrote that oss has more distinctive highs than ALSA. Alsa highs are kind of foggy like they underwent much low-quality resampling. It turned out that i am not the only one who discovered that phenomen. Another guy reports:
" I'd much rather have OSS4 because the sound quality of ALSA just blows, I mean seriously the high's and mids aren't nearly as clear." from
http://www.overclock.net/t/917224/jackd ... t-confused

For prefessional work i would prefer oss driver, the only thing that prevents me from using oss is requirement to use jackd2 because all modern software like carla and vst depend on jackd2.
I wonder why all those programers do not patch jackd2 code to include OSS. It looks like there is a hidden agreement between those programers to ban oss driver everywhere. But in spite of all theoretical talks about alsa superiority from alsa developers that phenomenon of clearer highs and mids with OSS exist and that is objective data because several people noticed it. I don't know why ALSA does not sound so good. When i tried to speak with alsa support people they insist there is no difference i sound. Then why do several people hear the exact same difference and the favour is on OSS side. I feel like something is just hidden by a secret agreement or are Alsa devs really deaf like people reported here? Why can't they do same distinctive highs and mids or look through their system chain to find the weak spot applying blurring to sound? What we observe is lowering of quality in all goods last decade. And sound is one of these.

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Re: Why OSS sound quality is superior vs ALSA

Postby ossuserr » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:33 pm

funtoo-overlay no longer has OSS driver ... so it's not installable to gentoo.

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Re: Why OSS sound quality is superior vs ALSA

Postby nuc » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:31 pm

Funtoo still supports OSS. You can find ebuilds here and here.
Check out my effort on revamping the opensound website => github.com/Nuc1eoN/4Front-Tech-Website
Any feedback greatly appreciated =)

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Re: Why OSS sound quality is superior vs ALSA

Postby ossuserr » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:06 pm

Thanks for your input, yes fun2 supports OSS, I have wrote how to install it from funtoo-media overlay in the topic viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5801&start=30 on page 3

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Re: Why OSS sound quality is superior vs ALSA

Postby ossuserr » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:58 pm

I advise comparing sound of this song on http://rghost.net/download/8J4smKjKy/e9 ... ivane.flac http://rghost.net/8J4smKjKy alsa and oss. Alsa turns it into mud. You totally lose the feeling of space. I have noticed the same thing on another live recording. IT seems that alsa can't handle well live recording which were made in noisy places or bad acoustic environnment. Those recordings sound like mud without any stereo scene on alsa. The only benefit of alsa i have noticed is ABSENCE OF CLICKS and ABSENCE OF ELECTRICAL INTERFERENCE OF PC's OTHER HARDWARE ON THE SOUND CARD. How is it achieved? BY LOWERING DOWN THE POWER SUPPLY TO THE SOUND CARD! And the outcome? - ABSENCE OF CLICKS AND NOISES CAUSED BY HW INTERFERENCE AT THE SAKE OF SOUND QUALITY! Finally, i hacked the secret of alsa...
It's not a secret that some cards are modded to sound like much more expensive cards. For example, one of the most modded cards is E-Mu 1212m. I even have a manual for some simple hack. The complex hack is a secret info i don't have. Some private firms do it for money making that card sound like 3000$ cards.
The usual effect of modding which implies improving electrical part is that card becomes more sensitive to hw interference of chassis hardware. It's exactly what i described in Esi Juli@ topic. So 1) Alsa devs lies to me that OSS and ALSA use the same driver but different higher level apis. It's the low level driver what is different. OSS supplies more electricity to make your CHEAP sound card sound LIKE A PRO CARD.
2) Alsa drivers are written under control of corporations who produce sound cards. The idea is to do good alsa drivers for expensive cards and bad drivers for cheap cards thus encouring you to buy expensive cards. The more you pay the better sound you have. They don't care if you are poor and talented... What they need is only money. Kind of shame for opensource community.
It's important to understand who works for that opensource community. They are the same persons who work for corporations. Opensource is a hobby to them, when they have holidays or free time. Thus the following goal is achieved. Corporations know that in order to keep the modern slaves quiet they need to satisfy their needs completely. For this purpose they created the opensource segment where you don't have to pay. The same programers working for corps work for opensource, some even for salary. But mostly they produce shit. That shit is hidden in a cunning way. For example, notation program Musescore is now the level of the expensive Sibelius or Finale but you can't have good sound quality because of the crappy alsa driver. So whatever good tools you have you won't be able to do a masterpiece due to some hidden factors like non-convienient handycraft-room or etc. If you want quality prepare to pay for expensive cards. That's, probably, what gives salary to opesource developers. They just execute the orders from corporations.
The same thing concerns speakers and monitors. Monitora with Berillium tweeters or square ones cost higher and produce better sound than cloth or paper ones but corps won't tell you that secret. All monitors are claimed to sound flat and true like. But that is complete bullshit. They may measure just level of noise. If noise sounds the same volume level within the standard range of 50-20000 hz they call a speaker a monitor. But hey do we listen noise or music on the speakers? Evidently each monitor model has own peculiar harmonics and coloration. It's not possible to avoid coloration because a speakers are imitation instruments. They try to imitate nature.
So oss imitates nature better to my hearing than alsa. Its sound is more rigid and man-like, more aryan, more musculine while alsa is a soft and dead like a driver for gays and pervs. You just feel it. I may presume that Especially on cloth tweeters alsa is unbearable. Perhaps on some legendary yamaha 10m with BE tweeters defects of alsa could be partly hidden. But due to not enough electrical supply to the card invoked by alsa technology don't expect high dynamic range, dynamism or drive from a song.
If you tell to alsa devs or their trolls that you are an oss user they become furious and start persuading you to move to alsa because oss is old, bad, etc.
Comrades, don't leave OSS. Do on the contrary to what they say. With oss you unlock potential of cheap soundcards. All those alsa fags use RME cards of over 600$ because they need external DACs to avoid alsa crappy design. With alsa you don't have clicks but your card is not powered and not functioning normally.
Alsa team to the joy of corporations managed to supress OSS by making linux kernels not supporting OSS inside the kernel image. The last version of OSS which could be used inside the kernel was v.3. V.4 can be used only as modules. What does it mean? It means loss of speed as one of jackd developers confessed to me. Perhaps you need a fast speed if you record live, right? Say thank you to the corporations and opensource developers for spoiling sound on linux. We should remember that the ultimate aim of corporations is to turn you into biorobots who would work much and would not need any joy in life, they need zombies, the walking dead. To achive that aim they spoil music, sound, games, cinema, etc. The main thing they do is removing dynamism and fastness from everything, in our case from audio tools, from the driver, from the instrument of creation. Why? Because they need slow walking dead who would not ask any questions or prevent them from robbing you. You can't create great music with large latencies because your brain will have to slow down to match the crappy slow operation of hardware due to intentionally badly designed software.
Don't be fools. Use OSS. Don't let them decieve you.

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Re: Why OSS sound quality is superior vs ALSA

Postby ossuserr » Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:13 pm

Another hard test for alsa. http://rghost.net/download/8Rs5jcBRL/9e ... -live.flac
Alsa produces stronger vomit dizzy effect than OSS smashing the space to the flat thing.

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Re: Why OSS sound quality is superior vs ALSA

Postby ossuserr » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:59 pm

http://www.audiopoisk.com/file/IVQb4Lev ... 740654.mp3
This is the Russian|USSR school of audio engineering. Song for children. Enjoy. That's what americans with their Tavistok audio diversion (zombying) project have been destroying.
I think OSS is kind of Finish-Russ school of audio engineering. It's purely European school. Finnougric-Indoeuropean or White. One of the reasons why i prefer OSS.

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Re: Why OSS sound quality is superior vs ALSA

Postby ossuserr » Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:22 pm

"By the way there is a secret esoteric knowledge with alsa also" - one of jackd developers confessed to me. There is a possibility to unblock full power supply to the card like it's done on OSS BY DEFAULT. Unfortunately, my internet broke before the guy told me the way to hack alsa... Still i want to underline that THERE IS ONE ALSA FOR THE NARROW CIRCLE and ANOTHER ALSA FOR THE REST.
By that reason i will use OSS instead since i am not a member of that narrow circle and i don't know any hacking secrets for alsa.

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Re: Why OSS sound quality is superior vs ALSA

Postby igorzwx » Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:39 pm

ossuserr wrote:"By the way there is a secret esoteric knowledge with alsa also" - one of jackd developers confessed to me. There is a possibility to unblock full power supply to the card like it's done on OSS BY DEFAULT. Unfortunately, my internet broke before the guy told me the way to hack alsa... Still i want to underline that THERE IS ONE ALSA FOR THE NARROW CIRCLE and ANOTHER ALSA FOR THE REST.
By that reason i will use OSS instead since i am not a member of that narrow circle and i don't know any hacking secrets for alsa.


It might be difficult for them to confess that they are deaf and stupid.
Therefore, they may claim that they have a sort of "very secret ALSA", or "secret esoteric knowledge", or "very special hardware".

If you want to understand something about the Linux community, you may try to read "fairy tales for children", instead of "conspiracy theories".
For example: _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes

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Re: Why OSS sound quality is superior vs ALSA

Postby ossuserr » Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:23 pm

Let me disagree with you strongly. It's wrong to hang pricetage to people. I don't think that all alsa users are deaf. Perhaps they
1. have better monitors and soundcards than oss users which compensates for drawbacks of alsa sound quality. Many of them use adams and rme cards, yamahas 10m line. Many use firefire cards with ffado.
2. Are not interested in audiophilia and just interested in programming.

Still they helped to make a patch for jackd2 to work with oss :)

I have noticed that alsa colorates the sound making it a bit sweet. That sweet, glamour-like thing is a derivative from antialiasing - the same works for image processing. As a result the entire picture looks like more glamor but due to the lack of details like you have removed all wrinkls.
Alsa programers swear that alsa does not make any secret resampling but why does alsa then have lower sound volume? In order to lower the volume you have to apply some processing to sound. The only method to change volume without effecting the digital stream is by master mixer whcih operates on hardware level. My suspicion is that alsa's master slide in alsamixer does not enable the full volume to prevent clipping. This prevents giving full electrical power to the card. Or they preprocess sound before feeding to the master mixer. Whatever it is they claim that alsa is opensource and everyone can check. But no one wants to check those low level things.

Whatever alsa programers say oss's sound differs from alsa's. It's more neutral and more DRY. By the way in audioengineering DRY means UNPROCESSED.

Still we should admit that alsa users can use more expensive and newer cards with better DACs then OSS users.

In my opinion that antialiasing makes sound be feminine while OSS corresponds to the northern and viking like school with crisp highs. Thus for me alsa = jewish school of audio engineering, oss = indoeuropean school. By the way in jewish culture mother dominates over father. Interesing coincidence.

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Re: Why OSS sound quality is superior vs ALSA

Postby ossuserr » Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:35 pm

By the way my first soundcard was bought and used in 1999. I remember that it sounded the OSS way like unprocessed, neutral and dry on windows98. At that time windows98 used DOS driver beneath if i am not mistaken.

Also i think i can't but agree with you that lack of highs pertaining to alsa can spoil hearing. While it's a known fact that load high frequencies DO SPOIL hearing PERMANENTLY we should admit that too low volumes of high frequences CAN BE HARMFUL too and LEAD TO DEGRADATION OF THE HEAR APPARATUS DUE TO NON-STIMULATION. You know that the organ that is not used for a long time undergoes atrophia. This concerns especially muscles. The spiral body of inner ear is covered by receptors tuned to different frequencies. What will be if only mid and low frequency receptors are stimulated? It can lead to degradation of high freqiency receptors.

One of my acquaintances is an electrical engineer. He told that electrical parts used in tvsets from 2000s are just crap and last long-lasting tvsets were made in 90s.
All this raises the question of quality of sounds of soundcards. Yes present-day cards have better SNR but how is that thing achieved? the thing is that sound in the form of electrical signals just undergoes analog proccessing in electrical ciruits of soundcards, kind of analog antialiasing... That's why if u manage to power up those old soundcards and connect them to some present-day monitors, you may experience kind of orgasm from joy. In spite of worse SNR you will enjoy less processed sound and the feeling that SOUND IS HERE, NEAR YOU, AROUND YOU, not coming from somewhere else. In my opinion electrical masterpieces cannot be made just by rational logical way of thinking. They are a result of luck and experimenting. Do those corps consult usual musicians or perhaps they get instructions from mafia which has its own view to which sound is to be like? The question is opened.
In usa there is an incandescent lamp working since 1888 or so.

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Re: Why OSS sound quality is superior vs ALSA

Postby igorzwx » Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:29 pm

ossuserr wrote:Let me disagree with you strongly.


O.K. Let us put it in this way:
1. They claim that they have a "secret esoteric knowledge", which you do not have.
2. You firmly believe that they have the "secret esoteric knowledge", which you do not have.

Do you agree with these two statements?

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Re: Why OSS sound quality is superior vs ALSA

Postby ossuserr » Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:57 pm

The situation was like that:
1. One guy A told he possesses the knowledge to unblock full sound levels via alsa and that guy B taught him a lot of hackds about alsa. And that he, guy A knows how to put any driver into the kernel image.
2. In several days i contact guy B and he denies the info provided by guy A and claims that he does not know the way to activate full volume levels on alsa.

Somehow strange, also if we take into consideration that guy B did the patch for jackd2 for OSS. It could be that guy A was a troll but he told a lot of useful things and looked quite knowledgeable but my internet connection broke at the very interesting moment when i was going to ask how to put oss v.4 into the kernel image.

Other thoughts concerning why old hardware sounded less dead than that since 2000.
The thing is that old equipment did not have microprocessors or had some very basic ones. The thing is that you can put a program into a microprocessor to spoil sound because microprocessors are like small computers capable to do complex operations. Let's image that the owners of corporations by the mutual agreement have decided that the cattle around should not have access to the beauty of the world and added some minor non-noticeable mathematical operation to one of many microprocessors of a sound-card. As a result you have noiseless but dead sound like after photoshop's antialiasing. You just don't enjoy sound any more.
How that can be used later? For example to create wars and cut down population. The number of people not enjoying life increases progressively.

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Re: Why OSS sound quality is superior vs ALSA

Postby igorzwx » Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:03 pm

ossuserr wrote:The situation was like that:
1. One guy A told he possesses the knowledge to unblock full sound levels via alsa and that guy B taught him a lot of hackds about alsa. And that he, guy A knows how to put any driver into the kernel image.
2. In several days i contact guy B and he denies the info provided by guy A and claims that he does not know the way to activate full volume levels on alsa.

Somehow strange, also if we take into consideration that guy B did the patch for jackd2 for OSS.


In short: you got the OSS patch for jackd2, instead of "secret esoteric knowledge".

You may ask the great guru (the author of the patch) how to make a sort of static build of jackd2,
which does not depend on all the strange libraries installed on your system
_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_build

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Re: Why OSS sound quality is superior vs ALSA

Postby ossuserr » Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:58 pm

Maybe we need to organize a spiritism session to ask Elena Blavatskaya to give that knowledge :) Or Jakob Blumkin :)

I don't think that it's possible to make a static build of jackd in an easy way because the flag USE="static-libs" is missing on gen2. And that guru is kind of learning programing and is using debian. I can try to upload my jackd_oss.so file to this server and you can try to install jackd2, put my jackd_oss.so into /usr/lib64/jack/ folder and try to run jackd2 from the command line.

If you get the error like "oss driver not found" it means that you perhaps need to rescan somehow .so files of the system for linker to make links and in this case jackd2 potentially can start using my .so file.
Attachments
jack_oss.zip
module for jackd2 to use with oss, put to /usr/lib64/jack/
(22.25 KiB) Downloaded 412 times


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