oss4 not compilable on gentoo

[igorzwx]

Jackd is always 32bit float (internally). only when the signal leaves jack (to the soundcard) it converts the bit-depth..

Audacity and Audacious are doing the same. They also perform a "secret conversion" to 32bit format.
This old crappy standard was implemented for very old computers 20 years ago.

Petrov's resampler is using 64bit conversion. It is not activated, if no resampling is needed (e.g. 96kHz → 96kHz).

Perhaps, you may better ask Jackd devs to implement 64bit conversion.
64bit mixing may produce much better quality than that of 32bit, if Jackd's bit-depth converter is not crappy (it might be as crappy as libsamplerate is).

Do you need to have at least 24-bit card to employ 32-bit mode of jackd?

You may want to have a 32bit card to minimize quality loss. If Jackd has a crappy bit-depth converter, it may produce crap.

Intel HDA codecs have 32bit (with OSS4 drivers):

Code: Select all

$ ossinfo -v9
   Input formats (0x00001010):
      AFMT_S16_LE   - 16 bit signed little endian
      AFMT_S32_LE   - 32 bit signed little endian
    Output formats (0x00001010):
      AFMT_S16_LE   - 16 bit signed little endian
      AFMT_S32_LE   - 32 bit signed little endian 
    Supported number of channels (min - max): 2 - 8
    Native sample rates (min - max): 44100 - 192000 (44100,48000,96000,192000)

[ossuserr]

Yes, i noticed high quality of intel hda + oss and even with alsa it's much better than emu10k1 but now the pc with intel hda is used by another person and i have to use audigy2 zs. It has second device p16v which is 32bit too but oss has no driver for it and jackd does not start with it which make me frustrated.

I don't think those jackd developers will listen to me to implement 64-bit. I already tried to raise the topic of resampling in jackd but they all the time insist there is not resampling in jackd. But their own words contradict since according to them there is resampling to 32 float which is done by every jackd client and one final resampling from 32float to sample rate of the card set in jackd properties. Also i asked to change libsamplerate by Petrov's. They demanded the code.

[ossuserr]

What do you think about TempoTec Serenade HiFier PCI-E 32Bit / 192KHz PCI Interface Sound Card? and about TEMPOTEC Serenade DSD/DXD 32Bit / 384KHz High-Resolution which seems to be a cheaper alternative to pyramix?

[igorzwx]

resampling to 32 float

It is not "resampling", it is "bit-depth conversion".

Also i asked to change libsamplerate by Petrov's. They demanded the code.

You may try the SoX resampler. It shoud not be difficult to implement it in jackd,
libsoxr has a libsamplerate compatibility wrapper.
_http://audacity.238276.n2.nabble.com/SoX-resampling-td7556244.html

TEMPOTEC Serenade DSD/DXD 32Bit / 384KHz High-Resolution

This might be very interesting. Linux drivers may not exist, but...
Could you google the thing and explain what it is?

Hdta Serenade DSD (Tempotec in China)
The price of the Serenade DSD is the lowest of the all the DAC tested, sadly the sound quality of the Serenade DSD is also the lowest.
The sound is quite forward and harsh, with a whitening effect on all the music, the sound also become quite fatigue after a while, switching to DSD tracks doesn’t help much, it just has a very “Digital” and “Dirty” sound.
Even I put AudioQuest's fabulous recording of bluesman Robert Lucas, it sounded like 128k MP3, not good.
_http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/review-portable-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-dacs-audioquest-dragonfly-meridian-explorer-director-ifi-idac-idsd-geek-out-pulse-19272/index3.html#post390038

It seems that TempoTec is a kind of "crap producer".

[igorzwx]

This might be a better card:

ESI Julia@ / 24bit/192kHz
_http://www.esi-audio.com/products/julia/
_http://www.head-fi.org/products/esi-juli-audio-interface/reviews/10951

It seems that it has both ALSA driver and OSS4 driver

[ossuserr]

Concerning tempotec dsd, i myself wanted to learn more. But their specifications are kind of vague. The box has two rca outputs. They mention connection to headphones but no mentioning of connection to speakers... If it's a kind of portable solution to use with laptop it's not appropriate for mastering because it's done on monitors. + no drivers for linux. Otherwise it would be interesting. One person's opinion about quality i consider not enough to trust since the person can simply defend interests of the western companies who, by the way, themselves manufacture all their products mostly in China. The difference is that the companies praised by them belong to them while here we deal with a Chinese company. Taking into accout the current events like restoration of the silk road and loss of domination of the West we can expect a lot of products from China at cheaper prices and the same quality.

Heard about esi juli but someone claims that delta1010lt and emu1212 have better dacs where emu1212 is claimed to have best dacs at this price range but needs some moding by removing several parts responsible for elimination of loud sound at system boot. You can find some manuals for modding emu1212 with claims about improvement of sound up to the level of much more expensive pro equipment.

[ossuserr]

This is the list of cards advised for linux _http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/hw/start
This is about firewire cards https://ieee1394.wiki.kernel.org/index. ... ease_Notes
As per linux developers currently firewire cards are supported by alsa, in the past they required a separate driver ffado.

[igorzwx]

Taking into account the current events like restoration of the silk road and loss of domination of the West...

Heard about esi juli but someone claims...

Yes, the semi-deaf ALSA users can explain everything about DACs.

the Juli@ immediately distinguished itself as something quite special driving the Bryston BDA-1 DAC.
the Juli@ illuminated the music with unprecedented clarity, focus, and resolution.
the Juli@ breathed with life, air, and energy.
The Juli@ card rendered complex timbres effortlessly, with an unsurpassed ability to convey note shape—the dynamic and harmonic growth and decay of each note over time.

Spatial cues were presented with captivating verisimilitude. Finally, here was a card that preserved the full scale of well-recorded orchestral performances, with three-dimensional instrumental body and natural reverberant decay into the ambient air of the recording venue. Of particular note was the Juli@'s imperturbable dynamic stability. Even during energetic crescendos, the Juli@ card maintained a consistent perspective; instruments in the rear of the soundfield stayed in the rear of the soundfield. In contrast, every other sound card in this survey exhibited sonic artifacts during high-energy peaks, either coarsening textures, adding glare, or projecting the sound forward.

This sense of unflustered, well-behaved equanimity categorically differentiated the ESI Juli@ from every other sound card tested. Whether delicate chamber music, free-wheeling improvisational jazz, or raucous rock ’n’ roll, the Juli@ not only reproduced the recorded sound in a manifestly realistic manner, it played the music with expressive subtlety and enthralling vitality.

the Juli@ card's analog outputs did not deliver the soundstage width and depth, unfettered dynamic peaks, rich tonal complexity, and rhythmic precision of the Bryston DAC, but the essence of the presentation was uncannily preserved, only on a smaller, less resolved scale.
_http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-absolute-sound-card-survey-tas-213/

The Juli@ card's analog outputs may work wonders with OSS4 in "exclusive mode"

Re: oss4 exclusive mode
Post by angry_vincent » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:30 pm

I play only lossless tracks (flac and wavpack), also i have some 24bit/96Khz tracks too. My card is ESI Juli@, pretty decent one, support 24bit/192Khz on hardware level.
_http://www.opensound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4335&p=17191#p17191

angry_vincent might be right, you may not need the crappy VMIX and the evil "cooked mode" with ESI Juli@.

ESI Juli@ does provide hardware mixing, it has "internal digital mixer".

In professional audio, a digital mixing console (DMC) is an electronic device used to combine, route, and change the dynamics, equalization and other properties of digital audio samples.
_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_mixing_console

ESI Juli@ Specifications:
high quality 24-bit 192kHz ADC: 114dB dynamic range
high quality 24-bit 192kHz DAC: 112dB dynamic range
Complete internal digital mixer – enables to monitor digital I/O as well
.

I actualy prefer the JULI@'s more clean sound to the Emu... As I said, especially monitoring at lower levels (which long term projects tend to be all about), you dont want to be blasting your ears off all day with higher sound levels, and to my ears at conservative & reasonable monitoring levels the JULI@'s sound offers super-clean very tight & defined audio which makes working in comfort a breeze.
_http://dancetech.com/item.cfm?threadid=3904&lang=0

[ossuserr]

What's the point in that hw mixer?
I use mscore --> linuxsampler with about 20 channels loaded with sfs ---> non-mixer ---> system:playback. All is connected vis jackd2. To be more correct besides linuxsampler before non-mixer i have several vstis loaded via dssi-vst (which works only via alsa!) and drumgizmo nice humanizing drum kit program. All is connected via jackd2 of course. I doubt that esi's hardware mixer can connect the channels of all this staff.
I can't use oss for production, i need vsti, normally working linuxsampler with all instruments loaded.
Unless there is oss supports in jackd2 and dssi-vst i won't use oss. I can't sacrifice instruments for some slight improvement of sound. Of course i will change that crappy emu10k1 by something more decent. And still according to specs emu1212 has better noise to sound ratio, even better than lynx2. Of course specs may lie... Also i don't like creative company.
Also for production i have to use vmix because without it jackd may cause hissing and terrible sound already described so all benefits of oss disappear. Keeping oss for only exclusive mode to listen music with Petrov's resampler is for audiophiles who need only to listen to music of others and do not create anything themselves.

[ossuserr]

Anyway, judaists who have captured the planet promote only judaist musicians. I wonder if there is any point in composing since no one will ever listen.

[igorzwx]

What's the point in that hw mixer?
Also for production i have to use vmix.

If you have hw mixer, you do not need crappy VMIX, PulseAudio and the like.

I can't use oss for production, i need vsti

If you need VSTI, you may try something like this:
_https://startpage.com/do/search?query=wineasio

[ossuserr]

wineasio works a bit other way than dssi-vst. To use wineasio you start windows software in wine and then you must find in settings of that software the IO where you can choose wineasio as IO. But as you may figure out only large packs like sibelius, finale have such settings and of course vsti which are actually dll modules mostly do not have such menus for choosing IO. So wineasio fails in this aspect. Yes perhaps i will buy that juli card if it removes need for vmix use. But doesn't delta 1010lt have hw mixer? This card is newer and better according to reports.

[igorzwx]

doesn't delta 1010lt have hw mixer?

Delta 1010LT - Users Manual:

The Digital Monitor Mixer
The Delta 1010LT PCI Audio Card has a hardware digital audio mixer built into its PCI
controller chip. It accepts digital audio streams from all hardware inputs and all outgoing
software audio devices, mixes them with 36-bit internal precision and then provides the
mixed output to one or more locations. For the purpose of monitoring, the output of the
mixer may be routed, via the control panel’s Patchbay/Router page, to the first set of
Delta 1010LT analog outputs (OUT1/OUT2 as a stereo pair) and/or the S/PDIF digital
output. At the same time, the mixer may be used for stereo mix-down, with the mixer’s
output recorded into the user’s application software. The digital audio mixer is configured
and controlled by the included Delta Control Panel Software.
_http://godzilla.kennedykrieger.org/fmri/Delta1010LT.pdf

[ossuserr]

So with delta 1010lt + oss i can also get rid of vmix?

[igorzwx]

So with delta 1010lt + oss i can also get rid of vmix?

Yes. Software mixers were created for those soundcards which do not have hardware mixers inside.

M Audio Delta 1010LT seems to be supported
_http://manuals.opensound.com/devlists/Linux.html

oss_envy24 - ICE Envy24 audio device driver.
Open Sound System driver for Envy24 based audio cards such as the M-Audio Delta Series, Terratec EWS88 Series, Hoontech DSP24.

DIGITAL MONITOR MIXER

All Envy24 based cards have a built in monitor mixer. It can be used to mix allinput and output signals together. The result can be recorded from the "input from mon mixer" device (device 10 in the /dev/sndstat example above). The monitor mix signal can also be routed to any of the outputs (including S/PDIF and the "consumer" AC97 output of Terratec EWS88MT/D and any other card that support s it).

The settings in the gain.* group of ossmix are used to change the levels of all inputs and outputs in the digital monitor mixer. The possible values are between 0 (minimum) and 144 (maximum).

OSS permits using all 10 possible output channels of the monitor mixer even with cards that have less physical outputs. These "virtual" outputs are only sent to the monitor mixer and their signal is only present in the monitor mixer output. To enable these "virtual" channels set the envy24_virtualout parameter to 1 in oss_envy24.conf. This option has no effect with Delta1010, EWS88MT and other cards that have 10 "real" outputs.
_http://manuals.opensound.com/usersguide/oss_envy24.html